(no subject)

[second_banana]

So I cannot see Troy until this weekend as I am 1. Waaaay too busy with finals and 2. Writing a paper that involves the characterization of Achilles and don't want to be biased.

*But* I am a big fan of spoilers and of deleted scenes. So when I stumble across copies of deleated scenes from the script... I post them.

There are found here in perseph2hades's journal

I am *very* sad that they cut out Odysseus fucking with the Emissaries's heads. There was a puppy! And I *love* the cut stuff with Paris.

I will probably do a blow by blow commentary on the deleted scenes when I have more time and brain cells to spare.

But... Odysseus calls Paris PRETTY!

And it's true! Paris is not much more than a pretty boy until you put a bow and arrow in his hands. *cough*

~Susan
P.S. That collage was done by Jenwyn of Mirkwood who's art I am pimping like mad right now. It can be found at http://www.geocities.com/jenwynofmirkwood/home.html Jenwyn is my favorite Elf. Even cooler than Glorfindel.

Comments

[elvensorceress.livejournal.com]

Woo hoo! I'm famous! well sort of... so...you're going to do blow by blow things, huh? ;) No Troy for you yet? That is sad. I sorry...I was gonna go see 'Mean Girls' today...you know..celebration of the evil calc test that will be my downfall being done....but alas, I need to do more work. Maybe I'll go tomorrow since core class was cancelled. re: Odysseus calling Paris pretty....Yay for proof of slash in canon! *giggles* and that is my favoritest collage. yay! It's so the best one I've done. But I'm sure Glorfindel is way cooler than me. love ya, hon.

~Jenwyn

Don't bother seeing Troy

[estutius.livejournal.com]

Complaints, in no particular order:

• Achilles was way too short.
  
  
• Achilles is in a war before the Trojan war.
  
  
• The Trojan war lasts only about four days.
  
  
• Saving Private Patroclus - Achilles is storming the beach???
  
  
• Alternately mocking the existence of the gods and then expecting us to care when the Greeks sack Apollo's temple.
  
  
• Odysseus taller than Achilles.
  
  
• Hector is the girliest hero ever.
  
  
• Too few Greek heroes. The whole movie was "When is the scene where Achilles just finally kills Hector?!"
  
  
• The battles, in spite of being lifted directly out of Braveheart, have no soul and are boring to watch.
  
  
• Hector makes a point of not fucking with Patroclus' body. Way to make Achilles' antidramatic butchery of Hector even less appealing.
  
  
• BOOHOO EVEN THOUGH WE ARE A FIERCE WARRIOR PEOPLE WE HATE BEING AT WAR CRY CRY FOR FUCK'S SAKE I THOUGHT THIS THING WAS ABOUT GLORY NOT TEARS
  
  
• Aeneas apparently never participated in any of the fighting at Troy, and he managed to take about, oh, the entire city with him. Because God forbid anyone actually die.
  
  
• No effort was made to differentiate soldiers or lend their deaths any kind of fleeting interest.
  
  
• Swift-hopping Achilleus.
  
  
• Trojans: WOO HOO HOORAY FOR PRINCE PARIS ENSURING WAR WITH THE LARGEST POWER IN THE REGION LET'S JUST KEEP CHEERING BECAUSE WE ARE THE DUMBEST PEOPLE EVER.
  
  
• Achilles death: Didn't we already see this in Fellowship of the Ring?
  
  
• Ulysses and Achilles. Odysseus and Achilleus. Not Odysseus and Achilles.
  
  
• Ajax. The only moderately well-done Greek hero and he's out of it inside of half an hour of hitting the screen.
  

The only thing I liked about it was Sean Bean as Odysseus. Not only because they gave him a surprisingly role, but because if this thing makes enough money and they make The Odyssey, it will star Sean Bean.

Also, Orlando Bloom is the least plausible heterosexual ever.

Re: Don't bother seeing Troy

[second-banana.livejournal.com]

So this weekend I saw Troy for the second time. As I was reading through old LJ entries, I decided to get off my ass and reply to this. *is cool like that*

Achilles was way too short.
Achilles was never particularly tall in the Iliad. But when you put Brad Pitt next to 6'4 Eric Bana... he's going to look a bit small.

Achilles is in a war before the Trojan war.
Several of them in fact. He kinda mad a hobby out of war.


The Trojan war lasts only about four days.
Yeah... that bugged me too. The Iliad takes place in the tenth and final year of the Trojan war. But from Paris's taking of Helen to the Greek pony ride was about 11 years. Not a weekend.

Saving Private Patroclus - Achilles is storming the beach???
Achilles *did* go on the beach first, but it wasn't that dramatic. I had a bigger problem with how Achilles dealt with Patroclus in that scene. Patroclus was on equal footing with Achilles in all but birth. He was actually slightly *older* and a valued adviser.

Alternately mocking the existence of the gods and then expecting us to care when the Greeks sack Apollo's temple.
Whups. Yeah, I disagree with the decision to cut the gods, but I see why they did it. I think we were just supposed to think Achilles was a ways over the deep end so... mission accomplished.

Odysseus taller than Achilles.
Sean Bean sexy. Actually, the height didn't bother me so much. The casting was good enough that their scenes together rang true despite physical differences.

Hector is the girliest hero ever.
Umm? True they were all wearing skirts, and the dude cared for his family, but he was remarkably close to Homer's Hector. He fought because he loved Troy (and it's women and children)not for his own glory. If we're going for girly... *Paris* is the less than masculine. And even he is strong. He just used his gifts to get lucky instead of put the smack down.

Too few Greek heroes. The whole movie was "When is the scene where Achilles just finally kills Hector?!"
They cut the second Ajax, Aeneas, and Diometies (sp?) but most of the key players were there. I felt the whole movie is "When is the scene where Achilles gets karmafied and looses an ankle?"

The battles, in spite of being lifted directly out of Braveheart, have no soul and are boring to watch.
I totally agree here. The battles were too focused on special effect blood and not on the emotional tension, which is what was needed.

Hector makes a point of not fucking with Patroclus' body. Way to make Achilles' antidramatic butchery of Hector even less appealing.
Hector *never* fucked with Patroclus's body in the Iliad. He did take Achilles's armor. Achilles was so upset about it in the Iliad because the one thing he told Patroclus not to do was go up againtst Hector. Also, everyone knew it was Patroclus, but since he was almost equal to Achilles in skill and the armor was sent from the gods, he was kicking ass anyway.

BOOHOO EVEN THOUGH WE ARE A FIERCE WARRIOR PEOPLE WE HATE BEING AT WAR CRY CRY FOR FUCK'S SAKE I THOUGHT THIS THING WAS ABOUT GLORY NOT TEARS
Again...Umm? Achilles blubbers like a baby when Patroclus dies. He rips his hair and clothing, throws dirt over his face, and collapses face first in the sand and refuses to move until his mother reminds him that revenge might be a better course of action. In the Iliad, when a loved one dies there is weeping and moaning. It's a kind of mourning we just don't get in this culture. So all we got in the movie were a few token tears.

Re: Don't bother seeing Troy

[second-banana.livejournal.com]

Aeneas apparently never participated in any of the fighting at Troy, and he managed to take about, oh, the entire city with him. Because God forbid anyone actually die.
Lots of people died. Some of them had their helmets cleaved in two by swords. Infact, the armor was horrible! It kept failing. Good soldiers would have looked for exposed skin, not shoved wooden spears through a bronze curass. *coustuming grrrr*

No effort was made to differentiate soldiers or lend their deaths any kind of fleeting interest.
Agreed. Same as my comment above, there was too much squirting blood and not enough character development.

Swift-hopping Achilleus.
Agreed. It was a cheap way of hinting that his mother was a goddess without actually having to mention that the gods actually exist in corporeal form. *facepalm*

Trojans: WOO HOO HOORAY FOR PRINCE PARIS ENSURING WAR WITH THE LARGEST POWER IN THE REGION LET'S JUST KEEP CHEERING BECAUSE WE ARE THE DUMBEST PEOPLE EVER.
Yeah. That's about how it was in the book. Well... on their arirval home no one was *really* sure that it was Helen, and then Hector kept people from being *too* awfully mean to Paris, and put the smack down if they talked badly about Helen.

Achilles death: Didn't we already see this in Fellowship of the Ring?
Kinda. But I felt *bad* when Boromir died. Achilles knew death would happen if he went. Sucks to be him.

Ulysses and Achilles. Odysseus and Achilleus. Not Odysseus and Achilles.
... I have no idea what this means at this time, but I'm really tired. Perhaps it will come to me later.

Ajax. The only moderately well-done Greek hero and he's out of it inside of half an hour of hitting the screen
Ajax was out too early. He wasn't even supposed to die. And there were too of them. But he never had a lot of distinct character in the book, so I didn't feel his absence too keenly. The most interesting thing he did in the Iliad (in my opinion) was the wrestling match he had with Odysseus where Ajax was too big to be brought down, but Odysseus was too smart to get pinned.

The only thing I liked about it was Sean Bean as Odysseus. Not only because they gave him a surprisingly role, but because if this thing makes enough money and they make The Odyssey, it will star Sean Bean.
Sean Bean is one of my favorite actors. He really commits to what he is doing, and has an understanding of people that is quite remarkable. Unfortunately the Oyyssey is almost out of the question because the gods were cut. It's hard to piss off Poseidon when he's not *really* there.

Also, Orlando Bloom is the least plausible heterosexual ever.
Dude... if that boy were gay he would rarely top. But yeah... the look on his face when Priam pulled out the sword... Oh goodness. Not that Orlando kissing men would be a bad thing. *takes a moment*

This has been my rant in response to your rant. Thank you and goodnight.

~Susan